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	<title>Comments on: Missional: To die and to live</title>
	<atom:link href="http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/</link>
	<description>Erika Carney Haub's musings on life and God from South Central, L.A.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Holly B.</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/comment-page-1/#comment-190081</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/#comment-190081</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this needed reminder to follow hard after Christ, which means getting involved in the lives (messy though they may be) of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this needed reminder to follow hard after Christ, which means getting involved in the lives (messy though they may be) of others.</p>
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		<title>By: john page</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/comment-page-1/#comment-189330</link>
		<dc:creator>john page</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That was the finest piece of writing I've read in quite awhile...and I read A Lot.  You live what other people sitting in church pews wish they could, in living out Christ among and with people.  Wow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was the finest piece of writing I&#8217;ve read in quite awhile&#8230;and I read A Lot.  You live what other people sitting in church pews wish they could, in living out Christ among and with people.  Wow.</p>
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		<title>By: erika</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/comment-page-1/#comment-188602</link>
		<dc:creator>erika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/#comment-188602</guid>
		<description>Tom,

Thank you for that honest response. I really appreciate what you share here and think it is a crucial message that many (myself included) need to hear. Again, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>Thank you for that honest response. I really appreciate what you share here and think it is a crucial message that many (myself included) need to hear. Again, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/comment-page-1/#comment-188598</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/#comment-188598</guid>
		<description>I especially liked your concluding comments. Having had many years experience of mission in contexts like yours, seems to me the 'resurrection' is really more about a new creation of hope and faith in God in the midst of a difficult crucible that makes hope and faith hard, and not necessarily remaining hopeful about particular strategies or organizations or even--at times--about the practical ability of specific Christian communities to bring about lots of tangible change in an urban poor neighborhood at a particular time. 

If strategies work and organizations are successful and Christian communities bring about dramatic change in a neighborhood, so much the better. But that often doesn't happen, even over years. In one sense, changing a poor urban community significantly takes changes in many factors, many of which are actually outside of that community and out of the 'control' of a group of Christians trying to be faithful in that context. 

So I guess my experience is that while tangible changes to a neighborhood are certainly a part of God's resurrection work, they're secondary to the stripping away of illusions we have about the change we can make or the effect our strategies will have--or more basically--about our own real commitment to the people around us (crucifixion?)and a miraculous building up a new kind of faith less attached to what may be vain hopes about what 'cutting edge' missional people can do with our strategies and approaches and energy and commitments. 

Like a lot of folks who do that kind of mission, I struggled with a crisis of faith and a dark night of the soul in the midst of it including depression and questioning what it meant to believe. Something about justice /service of the poor missional work has particular power to begin stripping away the illusions I mentioned and also challenging false and easy conceptions about God. 

Looking back on that time in the inner city, and also on many years of starting and helping build 'urban poor missions,' I'm not sure we accomplished a whole lot  of dramatic change in entire poor communities. And I'm again struggling to make sense of all that--was the effort worth it? Were we just not faithful enough? Was it the wrong people, the wrong strategies?

As a result of that reflection on those years of urban poor work, I feel like God is going even deeper now than He did once before in stripping me of my 'missional' and personal illusions. Honestly, right now it's getting so stripped down I'm beginning to wonder what's left :^) And I'm feeling about a dozen different emotions. But I think that's all part of the process. I'm sure at least some of you understand what I'm talking about. 

In any case, I'm believing and hoping that 'the resurrection,' at least in my case, will have more to do with a new kind of faith that may be more skeptical about things I once put more faith in than I should have but more confident that God is working, even if not in the ways I'd hoped or through the channels I thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I especially liked your concluding comments. Having had many years experience of mission in contexts like yours, seems to me the &#8216;resurrection&#8217; is really more about a new creation of hope and faith in God in the midst of a difficult crucible that makes hope and faith hard, and not necessarily remaining hopeful about particular strategies or organizations or even&#8211;at times&#8211;about the practical ability of specific Christian communities to bring about lots of tangible change in an urban poor neighborhood at a particular time. </p>
<p>If strategies work and organizations are successful and Christian communities bring about dramatic change in a neighborhood, so much the better. But that often doesn&#8217;t happen, even over years. In one sense, changing a poor urban community significantly takes changes in many factors, many of which are actually outside of that community and out of the &#8216;control&#8217; of a group of Christians trying to be faithful in that context. </p>
<p>So I guess my experience is that while tangible changes to a neighborhood are certainly a part of God&#8217;s resurrection work, they&#8217;re secondary to the stripping away of illusions we have about the change we can make or the effect our strategies will have&#8211;or more basically&#8211;about our own real commitment to the people around us (crucifixion?)and a miraculous building up a new kind of faith less attached to what may be vain hopes about what &#8216;cutting edge&#8217; missional people can do with our strategies and approaches and energy and commitments. </p>
<p>Like a lot of folks who do that kind of mission, I struggled with a crisis of faith and a dark night of the soul in the midst of it including depression and questioning what it meant to believe. Something about justice /service of the poor missional work has particular power to begin stripping away the illusions I mentioned and also challenging false and easy conceptions about God. </p>
<p>Looking back on that time in the inner city, and also on many years of starting and helping build &#8216;urban poor missions,&#8217; I&#8217;m not sure we accomplished a whole lot  of dramatic change in entire poor communities. And I&#8217;m again struggling to make sense of all that&#8211;was the effort worth it? Were we just not faithful enough? Was it the wrong people, the wrong strategies?</p>
<p>As a result of that reflection on those years of urban poor work, I feel like God is going even deeper now than He did once before in stripping me of my &#8216;missional&#8217; and personal illusions. Honestly, right now it&#8217;s getting so stripped down I&#8217;m beginning to wonder what&#8217;s left :^) And I&#8217;m feeling about a dozen different emotions. But I think that&#8217;s all part of the process. I&#8217;m sure at least some of you understand what I&#8217;m talking about. </p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;m believing and hoping that &#8216;the resurrection,&#8217; at least in my case, will have more to do with a new kind of faith that may be more skeptical about things I once put more faith in than I should have but more confident that God is working, even if not in the ways I&#8217;d hoped or through the channels I thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Arpin-Ricci</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/missional-to-die-and-to-live/06/comment-page-1/#comment-188504</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Arpin-Ricci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Encouraging, inspiring and a little overwhelming.  Thanks Erika.

Peace,
Jamie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Encouraging, inspiring and a little overwhelming.  Thanks Erika.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Jamie</p>
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