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	<title>Comments on: Ghetto no more</title>
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	<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/</link>
	<description>Erika Carney Haub's musings on life and God from South Central, L.A.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 18:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Teresa</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-629015</link>
		<dc:creator>Teresa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-629015</guid>
		<description>I'm writing a paper on the ghetto and the garbage they throw all over the place after someone has cleaned it all up and how in these gentrification neighborhood there is no garbage all over the place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m writing a paper on the ghetto and the garbage they throw all over the place after someone has cleaned it all up and how in these gentrification neighborhood there is no garbage all over the place.</p>
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		<title>By: erika</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-30248</link>
		<dc:creator>erika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 17:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-30248</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the great comments here! I think it is an important conversation that  needs to be had in anticipation of the changes we can expect to see wherever we might live.

The comment I hear a lot of from suburban folks is that they reflect and serve their community (as an explanation for why they are mono-ethnic or mono-class), but I think that will change (and has changed already in a lot of places). It will be pastors like Kent (comment above) and others who will lead the way in thinking creatively about how  to make their churches places for these immigrants, so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the great comments here! I think it is an important conversation that  needs to be had in anticipation of the changes we can expect to see wherever we might live.</p>
<p>The comment I hear a lot of from suburban folks is that they reflect and serve their community (as an explanation for why they are mono-ethnic or mono-class), but I think that will change (and has changed already in a lot of places). It will be pastors like Kent (comment above) and others who will lead the way in thinking creatively about how  to make their churches places for these immigrants, so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Subversive Influence &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Random Acts of Linkage #8</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-29405</link>
		<dc:creator>Subversive Influence &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Random Acts of Linkage #8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 17:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-29405</guid>
		<description>[...] Erika Haub asks the question about how suburban churches and ministries will change as the suburbs become greater centers of poverty. Not a common question, and good food for thought. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Erika Haub asks the question about how suburban churches and ministries will change as the suburbs become greater centers of poverty. Not a common question, and good food for thought. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Gossard</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-29131</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Gossard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 00:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-29131</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Erika. Very interesting. We live in a downscale suburban area, I'd guess relatively so. 

I wish God's people/ churches were more involved with the hurting. I've been working with a couple who keep getting turned down by the system yet live with integrity and do what they can. The system is broken down for all the good it does. And the church doesn't hardly know what to do, too often, apart from a benevolent fund. Thanks for this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Erika. Very interesting. We live in a downscale suburban area, I&#8217;d guess relatively so. </p>
<p>I wish God&#8217;s people/ churches were more involved with the hurting. I&#8217;ve been working with a couple who keep getting turned down by the system yet live with integrity and do what they can. The system is broken down for all the good it does. And the church doesn&#8217;t hardly know what to do, too often, apart from a benevolent fund. Thanks for this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler Watson</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-29102</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 20:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-29102</guid>
		<description>I wonder if we'll be experiencing a "White Flight, Part II." When caucasian and more affluent Americans saw the inner cities becoming more diverse both ethnically and economically in the 60's and 70's, they fled for the suburbs and their churches generally followed suit. Now that affluence is moving back to the inner city, I assume that those same churches will go there as well -- although it is more expensive to move that direction, so perhaps commuter churches will become even more prevalent. 

I assume Jesus will call people to minister to the poor in the suburbs. I have friends doing so in the Oak Park neighborhood of Sacramento. Gentrification is a big issue in their minds as they purchased a duplex. They want to see transformation of the community, but not at the expense of the people who live there. Perhaps it's better to say they want to see transformation of the community and for the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if we&#8217;ll be experiencing a &#8220;White Flight, Part II.&#8221; When caucasian and more affluent Americans saw the inner cities becoming more diverse both ethnically and economically in the 60&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s, they fled for the suburbs and their churches generally followed suit. Now that affluence is moving back to the inner city, I assume that those same churches will go there as well &#8212; although it is more expensive to move that direction, so perhaps commuter churches will become even more prevalent. </p>
<p>I assume Jesus will call people to minister to the poor in the suburbs. I have friends doing so in the Oak Park neighborhood of Sacramento. Gentrification is a big issue in their minds as they purchased a duplex. They want to see transformation of the community, but not at the expense of the people who live there. Perhaps it&#8217;s better to say they want to see transformation of the community and for the community.</p>
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		<title>By: Kacie</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-29065</link>
		<dc:creator>Kacie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 15:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-29065</guid>
		<description>Well, I can tell you where most of them moved to. You're right, the burbs, but also the south side. It's interesting to take a street like Western and start out up by where you used to live and drive way down to the south of the city. It's amazing to watch the neighborhoods change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I can tell you where most of them moved to. You&#8217;re right, the burbs, but also the south side. It&#8217;s interesting to take a street like Western and start out up by where you used to live and drive way down to the south of the city. It&#8217;s amazing to watch the neighborhoods change.</p>
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		<title>By: Beyond Words</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-29036</link>
		<dc:creator>Beyond Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 13:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-29036</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure the phenomenon of high-end condos will ever hit my town, but nonetheless, I believe Christians should live in such a way that they don't continue to displace and marginalize people who don't have access to that kind of affluence. 

I'm praying Christians will keep re-imagining the way we live, whether urban, suburban or rural. 

I live in a university town of about 50,000. My husband and I are praying about selling our house as soon as our youngest graduates from high school and moving to the center of the city--we'd like to rehab an older house and design it for intentional community. 

We're not sure how we would invite people to share in this experience, but we can't shake the sense of calling to it. 

We feel God's is asking us to draw closer to the ecumenical and economic center of town. Although one goal is to live more sustainably--to walk and bike more and drive less--another goal is to be a presence for churches and social agencies located at city center instead of being the imported saviors who drive in from the affluent neighborhoods.

We believe the example of living modestly and intentionally in community might be a much needed witness to the power of Jesus to transform lives instead of merely promoting a personal piety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure the phenomenon of high-end condos will ever hit my town, but nonetheless, I believe Christians should live in such a way that they don&#8217;t continue to displace and marginalize people who don&#8217;t have access to that kind of affluence. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m praying Christians will keep re-imagining the way we live, whether urban, suburban or rural. </p>
<p>I live in a university town of about 50,000. My husband and I are praying about selling our house as soon as our youngest graduates from high school and moving to the center of the city&#8211;we&#8217;d like to rehab an older house and design it for intentional community. </p>
<p>We&#8217;re not sure how we would invite people to share in this experience, but we can&#8217;t shake the sense of calling to it. </p>
<p>We feel God&#8217;s is asking us to draw closer to the ecumenical and economic center of town. Although one goal is to live more sustainably&#8211;to walk and bike more and drive less&#8211;another goal is to be a presence for churches and social agencies located at city center instead of being the imported saviors who drive in from the affluent neighborhoods.</p>
<p>We believe the example of living modestly and intentionally in community might be a much needed witness to the power of Jesus to transform lives instead of merely promoting a personal piety.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Brenegar</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-29027</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Brenegar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 11:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-29027</guid>
		<description>What do churches do?  They create organizational structures that help people to assimilate into the economic realities of cities, suburbs and rural areas.  It isn't enough to have a relationship with them. We need equipping structures that provide ways for people to gain the skills and perspective needed to sustain their lives and the lives of their families in the midst of this dramatic change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do churches do?  They create organizational structures that help people to assimilate into the economic realities of cities, suburbs and rural areas.  It isn&#8217;t enough to have a relationship with them. We need equipping structures that provide ways for people to gain the skills and perspective needed to sustain their lives and the lives of their families in the midst of this dramatic change.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Pratt</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-28916</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Pratt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 02:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-28916</guid>
		<description>Important stuff, Erika. 

“Urban ministry” in the US is changing, at least in certain metro areas. 

We moved to Denver from LA four years ago. Our old house in a Latino immigrant community in Southern California is worth $800,000 today. 

A few thoughts:

Gentrification in inner city neighborhoods has been going on for years since a certain segment of the upper middle class and wealthy always preferred living near downtown even during the huge middle class migration to the suburbs after WW2. 

That gentrification surge has turned into a flood over the past 10 years or so. Major cities figured out they would die economically if they didn’t market themselves to young, highly skilled folks who want to live with folks like themselves in stimulating urban environments. Cities like LA, Chicago, NY, Seattle, Dallas, Denver, etc. are some of the current winners in that fight for young tech talent. 

So property values in what used to be inner city neighborhoods in those cities skyrocketed. Some simple lifestyle inner city ministry types who bought homes in poor neighborhoods early in the surge have gotten equity wealthy with the appreciation “funny money” that came their way due to the wealthy young professionals willing to pay top dollar to live in their neighborhoods to be close the urban action. 

I know a lot of those ministry types and they can’t quite figure out what to do with their sudden wealth :^) The urban ministry folks who didn’t buy got caught in the vice of rapidly rising rents that always accompany higher property values.

As a result the location of ‘urban poverty’ looks different depending on where you live in the U.S. 

In the cities winning the tech talent war, the well off increasingly live in what used to be ‘inner city ghettos’ and in the ‘exurbs’ out beyond the old suburbs. Urban ministry in a place like LA will have to increasingly focus on the old suburbs where poor folks (and those who love them and want to minister to them) move because that’s the only place they can afford to live. 

In cities that are losing the tech talent war, urban ministry will likely look more like it did in the past. 

Organizations like Servant Partners will probably want to focus attention on newly poor suburbs in ‘winning cities’ and on traditional inner city ministry in “losing cities” (primarily in the Midwest and the Northeast). 

The CCDA—and particularly Bob Lupton’s ministry—developed in classic post WW2 circumstances where “inner cities were inner cities” and property values were very low. 

Current urban poor ministry in the US should probably focus on poverty in ‘metro areas’ (including traditional suburbs) and not as much on ‘inner cities.’</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Important stuff, Erika. </p>
<p>“Urban ministry” in the US is changing, at least in certain metro areas. </p>
<p>We moved to Denver from LA four years ago. Our old house in a Latino immigrant community in Southern California is worth $800,000 today. </p>
<p>A few thoughts:</p>
<p>Gentrification in inner city neighborhoods has been going on for years since a certain segment of the upper middle class and wealthy always preferred living near downtown even during the huge middle class migration to the suburbs after WW2. </p>
<p>That gentrification surge has turned into a flood over the past 10 years or so. Major cities figured out they would die economically if they didn’t market themselves to young, highly skilled folks who want to live with folks like themselves in stimulating urban environments. Cities like LA, Chicago, NY, Seattle, Dallas, Denver, etc. are some of the current winners in that fight for young tech talent. </p>
<p>So property values in what used to be inner city neighborhoods in those cities skyrocketed. Some simple lifestyle inner city ministry types who bought homes in poor neighborhoods early in the surge have gotten equity wealthy with the appreciation “funny money” that came their way due to the wealthy young professionals willing to pay top dollar to live in their neighborhoods to be close the urban action. </p>
<p>I know a lot of those ministry types and they can’t quite figure out what to do with their sudden wealth :^) The urban ministry folks who didn’t buy got caught in the vice of rapidly rising rents that always accompany higher property values.</p>
<p>As a result the location of ‘urban poverty’ looks different depending on where you live in the U.S. </p>
<p>In the cities winning the tech talent war, the well off increasingly live in what used to be ‘inner city ghettos’ and in the ‘exurbs’ out beyond the old suburbs. Urban ministry in a place like LA will have to increasingly focus on the old suburbs where poor folks (and those who love them and want to minister to them) move because that’s the only place they can afford to live. </p>
<p>In cities that are losing the tech talent war, urban ministry will likely look more like it did in the past. </p>
<p>Organizations like Servant Partners will probably want to focus attention on newly poor suburbs in ‘winning cities’ and on traditional inner city ministry in “losing cities” (primarily in the Midwest and the Northeast). </p>
<p>The CCDA—and particularly Bob Lupton’s ministry—developed in classic post WW2 circumstances where “inner cities were inner cities” and property values were very low. </p>
<p>Current urban poor ministry in the US should probably focus on poverty in ‘metro areas’ (including traditional suburbs) and not as much on ‘inner cities.’</p>
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		<title>By: kent</title>
		<link>http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/comment-page-1/#comment-28889</link>
		<dc:creator>kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 23:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://erika.haub.net/ghetto-no-more/05/#comment-28889</guid>
		<description>I am on sabbatical this summer and the primary focus for me will be the design of a ministry to the at-risk families in the Aurora - Montgomery area. Those who lived in Chicago have come out to my neck of the woods and are in a more difficult situation because of the lack of any kind of cohesive public transportation system. The CTA does exist out here. All that was the urban environment has come to the suburbs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am on sabbatical this summer and the primary focus for me will be the design of a ministry to the at-risk families in the Aurora - Montgomery area. Those who lived in Chicago have come out to my neck of the woods and are in a more difficult situation because of the lack of any kind of cohesive public transportation system. The CTA does exist out here. All that was the urban environment has come to the suburbs.</p>
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